Facial Feminisation Surgery - Face Femininzation Surgery FFS

Should a 'basic' FFS (Female Feminisation Surgery) be available on the NHS before GRS?

Yes - it is more important than genital surgery!
6
40%
No - Genital surgery is more important than FFS!
9
60%
 
Total votes: 15

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Ice Maiden
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Facial Feminisation Surgery - Face Femininzation Surgery FFS

Postby Ice Maiden » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:37 pm

VOTE ABOVE!

I think as a number of the forum users here are undergoing or have had FFS that it was time we had a serious look at this issue and people describe their experiences outcomes costs and how they organised their travel and/or found the money to do it.

The whole issue of the what makes a female look like a female is it seems a question of measurements. Dr Douglas Ousterhout was defiantly the pioneer in this field. And there are many good examples that people have written about including Kate Craig-Wood 1 2.

FFS is expensive, for the full package (which seems to be the way DrDO works) you will not get any change out of £25,000 ($42,000 Dollars US)and you need to add flights to that. Clearly for Kate who was/is a millionaire, this was not a problem and I suspect many an envious transwoman has taken a look at her picture on Google and sighed.

Confidence and pass-ability

To quote Gok Wan, "Girlfriend it's all about the confidence!"

The usual argument regarding confidence is, "yeah that's all very well but if you are being read all the time," all the confidence in the world will not help.

We can look to other groups that may have been disadvantaged facially and perhaps see some really strong people who can make our 'little annoyances' trivial by comparison.

http://www.katiepiperfoundation.org.uk/ambassadors/

Nevertheless, perhaps if they could click their fingers they would try and sort it out too, Katie Piper herself is proof of that, she wants to be how she used to be and is undergoing numerous operations until she makes it. If she was happy with her appearance then just stop?

So we all want to look our best from older people to young girls looking at posters of their female idols (Cheryl Cole, Katie Perry or Beyonce) on the walls of their bedroom - none of whom are 'ugly'.

But looking at the ambassadors on that page we can see something interesting, that despite their injuries they can still be gendered in one glance.

Transgender people

The key therefore is not so much 'attractiveness' (which is very subjective anyway) but rather 'passing'. Some pass some don't, some vary; what I see as attractive transgender women can be read by others?! Uh?

Gay men say they have a 'gaydar' I think Humans have a 'trandar' full stop! It is something at the very core of our evolution. When some are 'fooled' it questions their sexuality and of course can lead to violence. So some that pass maybe putting themselves at increased risk. As they are more likely to flirt and smooch and enjoy the moment, but sooner or later the 'news' has to be delivered.

Whereas someone who does not pass as well it is clear from the outset that if a person fancies them then they are on to a winner! :)

I recently wrote a mega post on Celebrity and Trans Currency here.

In that I concluded that the more attractive and passable one is, the greater their currency to the media, and the more high-profile they become as a result (but only for a short time unless they have a talent to continue the interest).

However, the paradox is that the more attractive and more visible they become, the more they are recognised for being trans. We end up with situations like this.

It now makes no difference how beautiful she is, Jenna Talackova will always be known as 'that transgender model'. The same could apply here too and she never even needed FFS as she and Jenna never even had a male puberty! And even Kate Craig-wood is now known as 'that transsexual business woman', despite spending in excess of £50,000 pounds on her new look.

So there is this situation where you want to look and pass as a woman, but maybe not too much where it in itself becomes a newsworthy story - unless you want it to be?

So back to FFS...

What do you think about it, its cost, have you had it? Did it make a difference, or was it just for a boost to your self-esteem?

The forehead seems to be the key area, with hairline brought forward and a nose-job, but some need chin and cheeks too? That said I have noticed 'bio-women' with some eyebrow bumps. And they can become more pronounced with age either through menopause or just loss of elasticity in the skin as we age.

Obviously cost is down to the amount you need doing.

I have often thought that FFS should be what Charing cross should be doing and do the GRS privately, as after all, everyone sees your face, who sees your genitals? :shrugs: After all with a good face that passes you can earn a living and get a job, if you do not pass you end up on the peripheries of society miserable.

That said Grayson Perry and Eddie Izzard could both clearly afford to have it but do not - and that is interesting too!

Should FFS (at least some NHS version of it be available?) as it is not about 'beauty' it is about passing as a woman. Else what is the point?

If you are lucky enough to pass without it good for you :). But there is always something we want 'doing'.

Be glad to hear your thoughts on the whole idea.
Disclaimer!!!! Please Read! http://media.transgenderzone.com/?page_id=2

"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world. For, indeed, that's all who ever have." M.Mead

Man [...] must count no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth." - J.P.Sartre.

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Different_Trains
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Re: Facial Feminisation Surgery - Face Femininzation Surgery

Postby Different_Trains » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:18 pm

Any chance of a third option?

To me, facial surgery is not something I'd ever want, and genital surgery is something I am unsure about whether I'd want.
To me the important thing is living as my chosen gender. I don't really like the idea of facial surgery on myself (though have nothing against others having it), and nobody will know what is in my underwear.

I consider both equally unimportant. Some may consider both equally important!

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Re: Facial Feminisation Surgery - Face Femininzation Surgery

Postby Ice Maiden » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:34 pm

I think in your case you just abstain.

Many see their face as their identity, it is who they are... but for others they want to wipe that face from the earth.

But again if taken too far it can become this.

Image Pete Burns
(Image: NME).
or
Image
(Image: Fem.com).

Amanda Lapore

It is one of those things that has to be extreme and subtle at the same time. Plus you need £20,000 pounds spare.

I could do with it on my forehead as I have some wrinkles but maybe I will wait a while not only for money reasons but because I am gunna need it more as I age. If I am still around in 10 years I will definitely have a nip-tuck then! And that can take me till my death ;)
Disclaimer!!!! Please Read! http://media.transgenderzone.com/?page_id=2

"Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world. For, indeed, that's all who ever have." M.Mead

Man [...] must count no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth." - J.P.Sartre.

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WeWantWaffles
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Re: Facial Feminisation Surgery - Face Femininzation Surgery

Postby WeWantWaffles » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:41 am

omg, these pictures are freaking scary.. Like, all of them. I cringe and feel so bad for those people. *shudder!* On a lighter note: I think it's hilarious that the abbreviation is 'FFS!'

Anyway I agree about the missing third option. I don't need a .. mewmew to feel like a woman. I'd rather be treated and seen as female, so whatever's between the legs doesn't matter usually. While I've considered FFS (feels like I'm swearing..), I saw too many bad things come from it, making it seem like a real gamble.

Lastly you should probably also consider the fact that you are probably prettier(/ more passable) than you think you are. When I look into the mirror, I really see my 'male features', but that's an illusion. Some say I look convincingly female in some pictures, and the way I see myself is distorted because I know what I look like before I apply make-up, shave, do my hair / put on a wig, etc! That probably extends to other people who have seen their 'male' appearance before hormones, so they'll always see the same face in the reflection of the mirror, just with different features.

That, to me, leads to a biased perception and decision.

I do not need neither one to be happy, and it's possible that making one of these decisions will reduce the quality of my life rather than improve it. So I'm with Emma! <3

* Took me 7 edits to post this. Never post at midnight >.<
- Sarah
And at the end of it all, I just want them to say; "Oh, that Sarah. She was a pretty awesome chick."


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Re: Facial Feminisation Surgery - Face Femininzation Surgery

Postby Steffi » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:05 am

FFS! - those pictures are downright grotesque and scary. :o
People who do that have something else wrong in their mind - look at the state of the people in the USA who do silicone injections. Some of them are so mind-numbingly hideous that they make those girls above look beautiful. What on earth possesses these people???

Facial surgery needs to be very subtle and never more so than with a M2F feminization.
The result depends on the artistry of the surgeon and what you started with.
Don't forget that born-women have been made to look dreadful by badly done or badly chosen procedures. Remember how bad even the overdone trout-pout is (was that Leslie Ash?)

I too am unhappy about the range of Poll options, but if the basic question is "The NHS can only spend £10,000 on you - which do you want?" then it makes sense.

If I had been faced with that choice as above then I would still have had SRS, but that is a choice driven by my own situation. Stocky and 6' tall, FFS wouldn't be a magic spell that would make me a 100% Pass.

If I had the money I would have full FFS tomorrow - it would make me pass better and what woman doesn't want to be prettier? (I will INHERIT enough eventually, but by then it might well be too late to bother)
If I had the money, I'd have stuff done to the rest of my body too!

I am in fact facing a choice right now - I can scrape together enough money for one procedure. I was hoping that the NHS would enlarge my breasts but they have refused.
So with funds available, I have to choose between breasts, nose reduction/reshape or facelift.

I am having my breasts done - if I can get a minor facial item done cheaply enough because it is at the same time, then I will also have a small tuck to lessen my jowls.

It is a matter of what is important to each person.
To me, breasts are a very visible female marker. (btw....don't forget that women are always complaining about guys looking at their breasts instead of their face :-p)
I HAVE to use boosters to give me a reasonable shape and to make my clothes hang right, but I cannot date and have all this junk fall out of my bra and leave me flat.

At worst, I can reluctantly live with my face.
Contact me privately via "steffi AT transgenderzone DOT com" Click to see Who I am

To those who understand, I extend my hand
To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am
Not under your command, I know where I stand
I won't change to fix your plan, Take me as I am (Dreamtheatre - As I Am)



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